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UNWANTED - Tongue Fight #3

February, 2003 - Tulsatwister posts in the GoneGambling Forums:

"... Who does GG Support

Back around the December 2001-January 2002 I had problem with Good As Gold Casino. I had deposited and lost several thousand one one of the 9line slots. To be expected, right? I then started to win, and won several thousand in a couple of hours. The casino then locked my account, and claimed I had somehow tampered with the game program (yeah sure), and offered me money to tell them how I did it.

I contacted several online agencies trying to get this resolved, since I was getting nowhere with GAG. I contacted John at GG, he was quick to reply, and stated that GAG was a good casino, and (his words) must have good reason for what they did (wow, this was a great neutral response), gosh, John sure did put my mind at ease. GAG did make one mistake that hurt them, they sent me an email stating they were going to turn over the list of plays to the company that produced the game (hummm there may be an angle here at last). I did some checking and found out who this was, and emailed them. I attached a copy of the emails from GAG, and informed them 1. That I doubted that GAG was really sending the play list to them, & 2. That even if I was wrong and they did receive the list, that there would be no way to tamper with the game without leaving some kind of evidence, and since I had not done anything there would be none. In less than 48 hours I received an email from GAG that my account was reopened and the money was returned to my account. Wow, what a coincidence hummmm.

Bottom line after it took more than 3 weeks to resolve this, with zero support from GG, well John did support the casino (who ended up having to pay). Ok, ok, I did finally, after weeks of worry and work get my money (with all the great Non-existent help and support from GG), so what am I complaing about. I write this having read the the latest newsletter, about members of GG who, are so very in the wrong.

I can understand the frustration in having to deal with members who do not read the very very long, very very fine print in the casion terms (we all read every word of the terms, dont we) (and I am sure the casinos know this), or the members who just make dumb mistakes, one after the other. GG leans towards supporting the casinos over GG members. I am sure we all know why this is so, but I really am tired of hearing about members who are out of line, how about the fruit loops section. Yes the fruit loops are out there, but so are the real compaints that should be addressed.

I do not know about the rest of you, but it seem that GG is telling us members, that if we complain, that we will be considered one of the fruit loops, unless and until we can find a way "ourselves" to prove we are in the right.

The GG site is a good site, with great deals, bonuses, and free money. I really enjoy trying to get GG points, or one of the bonuses, but do not look for any "real" support from GG against one of it's sponsoring casinos. After all GG knows where it's bread is buttered, and hey, it is so very easy to convince other members that the complainer is a fruit loop, and we all can get a good laugh over it (I am sure GG can come up with a great and funny response to this) Another fruit loop, we can all have a great laugh.... Unless your the one with the complaint.... Right??? ..."

Comment from GoneGambling:

Apparently this 'stab in the back' was triggered by yesterdays newsletter where it was made perfectly clear what the problems are where rogue members are concerned. The member above feels that we support our sponsoring casinos in preference to listening to and dealing with members complaints. That is simply not true. In the past few years GoneGambling has taken the battle up to several casinos we were dealing with. They weren't doing the right thing by our members and we took them to task over it. Two of the casinos disappeared from the face of the earth shortly after the battle, and others moved quickly to correct the problems we had unfortunately, as a last resort, had to make public.

Here again we find we are dealing with a rogue member who has a selective memory at best, or a forked tongue at worst. Sadly, having to place this members post in our UNWANTED section is not funny to GoneGambling. It wastes time for no reason at all. The member, although stating that he enjoys GoneGambling will be banned over this blatant and selective attack and time wasting. GoneGambling loses precious time and the member loses a precious membership! Why do they do it? It makes no sense at all and nothing is achieved by it.

Questions that need to be asked, because the reasons don't make any sense, are;

Why is the member now called Tulsatwister instead of Goldfinger which was the original membername he signed up with? Why did he only sign up for membership again just over a month ago after being away from the site for almost a full year? Did he sign up again just to cause trouble? If this member feels so let down by GoneGambling, why is he still playing on the site? Unless the member is deliberately trying to tarnish the reputation of John Abbott and GoneGambling, why is the member dragging this up a year after the matter has been resolved to his satisfaction? Why did the member not post the emails he had received from GoneGambling about this matter? Could it be that those emails in fact prove that John Abbott got the ball rolling with the casino? And that it's only because he did contact the casino and had a good relationship with them that they again looked at the problem?

Let's see if we can't find the answers in the following emails that GoneGambling still happens to have copies of. Perhaps after a year, Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) may have thought we wouldn't have any documentation to dispute his allegations?    

February, 2002

Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) writes:

"... I have deposited and lost about $12,000.00 at the casino, playing Treasure Cove slots. I figured if I stayed with it long enough, it may start to pay off. Well, it did I won about $22.000.00 over a 24 hr period. Then they lock up my account, and said they were investigating the wins. They later said the log looked suspicious, so I must be cheating, they cancelled my account and are keeping the money. I got information on their licensing, NAG Commission, but they say they do not have their phone number, email address or mailing address, Now that sounds suspicious. Below is a copy of the email they sent me. Is there anything you can do to help me. Thanks, Gary G. My Good as Gold account name is: xxxxxxxxx ..."

Copy of Good As Gold email:

"... Gary,

Having reviewed your casino play at Good as Gold Casino recently, we are sufficiently persuaded that your play is suspicious, and is the result of illegal manipulation of the game outcome. We have therefore disabled your account, and have sent the remaining $1885 from your Firepay deposits back to you via this method.

You are also disallowed from further play at any of our casinos, and any deposits you make in future will be forfeited and no play will stand valid.

Should you decide to inform us what method you have been using to subvert the game system, we would consider some compensation for this information, if it permits us to locate and correct a software/network vulnerability.

Regards,

Alistair Assheton
General Manager

Good as Gold Casino ..."

GoneGambling writes:

"... Hi Gary,

I don't have a phone number for Good As Gold Casino but I have copied them on this email and if they wish to send you the information, I'm sure they will.

Good As Gold is a trusted Online Casino and I'm sure that something has triggered this response from them. They are always very good to deal with.

John ..."

Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) writes:

"... Hi John,

Like I said, I have been gambling on the casino for several months now, over that time I have deposited and lost a lot of money. Now I did do anything wrong, so I know they could not have any proof of wrong doing. I am making a complaint, and I think since you say they are a trusted casino, you need to look into this matter. The casino is in the wrong here, and as you can tell by reading the email they sent me, they use the word "suspicious". I have no idea of what they could mean, I stayed with one slot, betting the max $9.00 per spin. for several hundred spins. That is taking a chance, not suspicious. I do not know what to do, I could use this money and I did win it fair and square. Again, I did nothing wrong, so if they do no pay me, then gonegambling is supporting a dishonest casino. You do not know me, but I am telling you I did nothing wrong, Please, please, check into this, I do not know what else to do.

After all the gambling I have done, money lost, I finally win some of it back, and am accused of cheating. I have not idea of how you could even cheat the program, and I would think if it could be done, that there would be solid proof of tampering. They just suspect, and have no proof. They say I did something, but do not know what, and are offering me money to tell them what. Re-read the copy of the email I sent you, and you will see that is what they are saying. Man, if I knew something, I would tell them to get back some of my money. Their phone number is 1.800.679.3779 My customer id is: xxxxxxxxx Gary G. Again as a member of gonegambling id goldfinger, I request that you please look into this. Thank you, Gary G. ..."

Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) writes:

"... Hi John,

Here is a follow up on my situation, I have included a copy of the last email sent to me by the casino, as you can see by reading it and the first one that they sent me which I have also attached, there attitude has changed some. In this last email they are no longer directly accusing me of cheating. I have my doubts about this casino, and think since gongambling says this is a trusted casino, you owe it to your membership to stay on top of this matter. I can remember times that I have received emails from you, asking members for help in supporting gonegambling. Now you have an email from a member asking for gonegambling's support. Gary G. ..."

Copy of Good As Gold email:

"... Gary,

I am still working on clearing your account, due to the unusual run of results you have experienced on our slot machines. I would like to talk with you, and ask a few questions about this so that we can figure out how the anomalies in the play might have occurred.

I also would like to know of any game strategy you may adopt, and whether anything strange happened while you were playing on the games.

Would you please let me have a telephone number and a convenient time to call you on Monday or Tuesday, so that we can go over these details with a view to sorting the issue out and hopefully reinstating your account together with your winnings.

Many thanks in advance,

Regards,

Alistair Assheton
General Manager

Good as Gold Casino ..."

GoneGambling writes:

"... Hi Gary,

As the casino has approached you and asked to talk to you, I don't know what you expect me to do? They are doing everything they can to sort out what they feel may be a problem. It is now up to you to contact them and get things sorted out as quickly as possible.

John ..."

Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) writes:

"... Hi John,

I believe the only reason my $22.000.00 is not history, is because I notified the gamming commission about the problem with this casino. Once they contacted the casino, their tone changed, as you could tell by their last email to me. I was wanting to apply as much pressure as possible on the casino, and I thought any contact you had with the casino would help (since they know you send customers their way, and any information you would post on you site about the casino, good or bad, would been seen by thousands of possible customers).

The thrust of what I was trying to tell you was, that there was no tampering with their program or software, they just had "suspicions" of wrong doing, because I was winning. Do not forget while this is going on, I am being subject to losing all of my winnings (unfairly I may add), and have deposited and lost with this casino around $12,0000.00. I also gamble with Slotland. Both of these casinos I gamble with because gonegambling says they are "trusted casinos". So let's just leave it at this. I am informing you of a problem with one of you trusted casinos, they are trying to get out of paying $22.000.00 and the only reason they are willing to talk, is because of the commission checking into the matter. So beware of this casino, here is a red flag, even if I end up getting my money, I am going to have to fight for it. I should not be this way. If you have another member or two who have problems, which by the way, you already have if you read the letters in your forum. Then just remember this email, warning you of this casino.

I do appreciate your responding to my emails, and think gonegambling is a great site, and I am sorry if it seems I have been asking for something you can not help with, but their is a lot of money at stake, and I did not know what else to do. I would think you would be very interested in any information on a casino that gonegambling recommends to its members, good or bad, so that you can keep the members informed about said casinos, for their benefit or protection.

I did notice that you did not ask me to keep you informed on how this matter turns out, and that really does surprise me. If you will re-read your fist email to me, it sounds as if you think the casino is in the right, and has good reason to think I cheated them. You may not have intended it sound that way, but it did. I am just an average guy, no genius hacker going around, cheating casinos. I am a member of several internet sites, but felt because of the more personal sounding emails I receive from gonegambling coupled with the type of site that it is, that you would want the facts, and if a member was in the right would want to help. Gary G. ..."

GoneGambling writes:

"... Thanks Gary,

If any of the casinos on GoneGambling don't do the right thing it does concern me, but so far you have emailed me and I responded and copied Good As Gold on my response. They then asked you for more information. I'm sorry if you don't see me as jumping up and down about this but so far Good As Gold has been cooperating with you and just trying to get to the bottom of what they suspect may be a problem.

I don't know who is right and who is wrong and I don't have information at my finger tips to make that decision. All I know is that the casino is asking you to talk to them, and if you prefer to write to me than talk to them, then you will not get anywhere. Sorry to be blunt but it's up to you to talk to the casino. They would not just refuse to pay you for no reason. To use a phrase of yours, something has set up a red flag for the casino and they want to check everything out before paying out. That is not to say you have done anything wrong, but I don't see the problem with you answering some questions for them if they are going to pay you out a large sum of money.

I have read the letters in the Forum about Good As Gold and they are nothing out of the ordinary for complaints about all casinos. By pointing to those posts in an effort to reinforce your own case, when you won't even talk to the casino, drops your credibility way down. Please talk to the casino.

Finally, I did not ask you to keep me informed because I had no doubts from the tone of your first few emails to me that you would be emailing me several times each day in an effort to keep pressure on both the casino and myself. You are doing a panic Gary and that comes through loud and clear in your emails. I'm sure you won't forget to let me know what happens. :-)

Panicking without talking to the casino is a stressful and fruitless exercise though. Again please contact the casino. I will not respond to further emails from you until you have contacted the casino.

John ..."

Good As Gold writes:

"... Hi John - be assured I am all over this, and we will sort it out as quickly as possible. Thing is, in the last ten days we have had two accounts from Tulsa, OK, that have absolutely defied all odds on the Treasure Cove machine - they have both played astronomical amounts of hands and have consistently won. This is at the same time as every other player (and there are hundreds every day now) is losing money at exactly the normal rate (the machine pays out around 96%). These two accounts have had the machine consistently over a period of days, pay out at up to 125%, and we feel something is sufficiently strange to question this.

As you will know, it is difficult if not impossible to actually prove tampering, but we are doing what we can in co-operation with our software providers.

FWIW (For What It's Worth) I don't know if he has contacted any 'gaming commission' but if he has, they certainly have not been in touch with us - and he does sound like the type of guy that could drive us both to drink.... I really appreciate your stance though, and I assure you we will get to the bottom of this, and if the guy turns out to be legit, he will get his money - simple as that. There is no question of him fighting for it - if it is rightfully his, we will let him have it, if it is not, we will not.

All the best,

Alistair
General Manager

Good as Gold Casino ..."

GoneGambling writes:

"... Hi Alistair,

I suspected that you may have had a couple of big winners recently and something had triggered a warning for you guys. Yes, he could drive us both to drink! :-)

As far as I can recall he has never emailed me about anything before and no other casinos have contacted me about the guy so I can't give you any information on him. I know you'll do what you feel is the right thing when you have all the facts together. One thing I appreciate about VIP (GAG) is the honesty you guys have. I've seen it before with you and it is appreciated.

Let me know what the outcome is? If you don't, I'm sure the other guy will. :-)

John ..."

Important Note: As most readers will observe, it was in fact the original email that GoneGambling copied Good As Gold Casino on that got things moving towards a resolution of this matter. No, we didn't jump up and down and make demands of the casino. There was no need to because of the good working relationship we had with Good As Gold Casino. We trusted them to look further into a problem that one of our members had made us aware of.

No 'gaming commission' contacted the casino. The only help Tulsatwister was getting with this problem was from the fact that the casino knew GoneGambling was aware of the problem. Because Tulsatwister (Goldfinger) would not cooperate with the casino and answer the questions they asked, this matter dragged on and on. No less than four times I had to tell Tulsatwister to talk to or contact the casino in an effort to resolve the problem.

Finally, thanks to Good As Gold and no thanks to Tulsatwister, the problem was resolved and Tulsatwister was paid his winnings. Tulsatwister would have been paid much earlier had he spoken to the casino instead of wasting his and everyone else's time cluttering up our mail boxes with pointless emails that did nothing to resolve the problems.

Tulsatwister is now banned from GoneGambling for not posting a true and accurate account of the problem and wasting our time by making us dig out the true facts.

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